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The Principal And The Paddle
Article Source: Newsweek- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (111)
If we don't discipline our children, society will. However, where does the line get drawn between sound discipline and abuse? A spanking in the school system is a frightening thought. It makes me shudder to think what may come next.
- 3 votes
#1 - Mon May 4, 2009 5:46 AM EDT
It makes me shudder to think what may come next.
Actually Ruthy, I think we're already seeing "what comes next" when it doesn't happen.
- 5 votes
I'd rather see schools doing what schools were built to do, give children an education. I can understand the frustration in some school systems but in reality just because they are frustrated is not a good excuse for condoning the final act of failure, spanking. If they spent a little more time on creative acts like after school activities they may get even better results than the temporary act of spanking that heaps more abuse on already abused children. Bad behavior often starts at home and includes spanking or beating so why would a school think this is a good idea since it simply adds failure to failure. I think those schools who have positive alternative ways of dealing with children who may act up are priceless. Spanking is not a positive alternative it is an acknowledgement of failure. But we always want the easy answer because we are all in such a hurry and raising well rounded children takes a boatload of time and care.
- 2 votes
Children do not need to be abused to be taught. Perhaps if the alledged leaders in state offices would spend more money on education and double up on teaching staff the system could work without being abusive.
- 1 vote
Norcal2
You are assuming a lot. Not every kid that gets spanked at school is getting abused at home. Not every child responds to being spoken to like they understand what you are saying. Most wild kids are not in school activities. So having them won't always work.
You have to face facts; When schools spanked, kids didn't act up. Now that they can't the teachers are in real danger.
- 6 votes
Edwin that is the reason why schools who offer solutions like exposing the children to art and sports and other alternatives work so well, it does give children positive activities. Kevin Johnson in Sacramento took a failing city school and turned it into a charter with focus on the arts and other extremely important activities. He turned around a school that failed so bad it was scheduled to be closed. That is the kind of thinking we need. We need schools that actually prepare all children for higher education. If Kevin, a pro-athlete can do it, surely educators can figure it out.
Behind every child who acts up there is a reason and whether it is being ignored at home or being abused, spanking does not right a wrong. Good sound ideas to stimulate these children is the only answer I have seen with long term impact for their future.
- 1 vote
Perhaps if the alledged leaders in state offices would spend more money on education and double up on teaching staff the system could work
That hasn't worked so far. Why will it work now?
You jumped right to abuse rather than seeing it for what it is, discipline. Very disciplined discipline at that.
Discipline is not a bad thing. It works. And it is a whole lot cheaper. More teachers with their hands tied with regard to discipline, regardless of the type, won't resolve the issue. That's been proved over and over again.
- 2 votes
Norcal2- any discipline is an acknowlegment of failure; if that is the word you want to use. When you need to resort to some form of punishment whether time out, no TV, etc. you are acknowledging that your child did not conform to the rules. In otherwords, failed the boundaries requirement. There is nothing wrong in telling a child they failed, or rather, did not meet your expectations and the rules.
Since when did it become a bad thing to tell a child they did not obey the rules? I think this philosophy more than anything else is causing problems. Children sometimes break rules, fail; sometimes parents fail by not helpig children understand that breaking rules is failing. When a child breaks rules they break the trust system and they disappoint. None of these things are wrong to tell a child.
When my children acted out, I would tell them they were not bad children, but made a bad choice which disappointed me as a parent. Children are not stupid, they are fully aware when they break a boundary. It's part of testing the waters to see how far they can go. Children are a mirror of what they are taught.
If your child is acting out, it is not because of whether or not your school is dishing out discipline, it is usually the fact that they have been taught it does not matter if you act out, or break the rules.
It all boils down to teaching responsibility and accountability....how can we teach these without some form of discipline? You cannot wait until a child is a teenager to try to start teaching these things. You have to start from the moment they are born. Everytime a baby cries...do you feed your baby? No, you are trying to teach them to wait for the next feeding time. You do however, check to make sure nothing else is wrong. If a child does not want to go to bed at bedtime, do you just let them get up and dictate ther bedtime? No. You find a way to show them they do have to adhere to a bedtime. This is not abuse, but teaching.
Therefore, why is it abuse when a school tries to teach that there are boundaries and consequences (sound consequences) for breaking rules?
- 3 votes
"This is not a practice for the 21st century," says Nadine Block, executive director of the Center for Effective Discipline in Ohio. "Maybe for the 18th century. An atmosphere of fear is not going to increase learning. Maybe temporarily. But over time, it does not work."
I don't agree with this statement made in the article. My parents, particularly my mother used to bust my behind if I did something I knew was wrong, I knew right from wrong way before my teenage years. Paddlings went on in elementary school and my mother used to say, "if you get one at school go ahead and prepare yourself for another when you get home". I'm 42 years old, finished high school, never had a drug problem, never been in jail. I owe it all to my mother who literally ruled with an iron hand. She raised my 3 brothers alone and none of them have ever been in trouble or without a job. We are the way we are because my parents taught us there are consequenses to your actions and depending on the offense the consequences could be great. There was no disrespecting other adults, there was no talking back once she told us to do something and damn sure wasn't any begging us to do our chores. She was the law and we had to abide. She didn't tell us 40 times to do something and "oh I forgot wasn't an excuse for failing to do what she ask us to do.
We never even remotely thought of talking back to an adult of authority and damn sure never thought about raising our hand to one. My mother never considered just one side of the story, if the teacher called for a conference she better have time to do it that day. My mother was not one for procrastinating, she wanted it handled then and she usually did.
- 3 votes
Norcal, with budget cuts, schools can't offer all these great activities. This is not about abuse. It's about 3 swats on the butt! Hardly abuse! When I was a child, I got paddled once at school. I got paddled again at home. I never did what I did again. I learned there are consequences to my actions. Kids today have no consequences. That's what is behind each child acting up! Teachers have no control in the classroom and no way to get it back. I applaud this adminstrator for taking a tough stance! It's working. You can't fault proof!
Reliable you are saying the same thing I am saying except I assume you are also open to schools spanking children. I do agree with you that you do the hard things that take time in parenting like teaching responsibility and guiding them. But this is a school. Positive and creative solutions go a long way toward educating at risk children. There are too many success in schools utilizing positive tactics to reach these children for a school system to take the easy way out by spanking them. Schools of all places should know better and by and large most do.
- 1 vote
LS school budgets are indeed bloated and struggling and this in a time when most of our taxes go to schools. What I find odd is that while schools get the vast amount of all taxation, it also offers up the least amount to the classroom. I take off my hat to those school districts who cut from the top and invest in the children with the arts, sports and classroom studies to round them off and catch them at young ages. There are too many schools with success stories to buy this story of an easy way out and frustration. Maybe it is going to take parents who demand more for their money or maybe it is going to take more schools taking pride in the children they are developing.
We get what we demand and if we don't demand more for children then they get spankings from a stranger charged with education.
- 1 vote
Norcal2 - it is great to look at the world with rose colored glasses, but a reality check is in order. Art classes and extra curricular activities will not keep the children in need of discipline in order. However administered, discipline is necessary. If you do not have to discipline your children, great! My hat is off to you; but not all parents are that effective. Some parents haven't a clue about what effective parenting and discipline consists.
Schools need a way to show children who are consistently making bad choices that they need to stop making those choices. Take for instance a child that hangs with the 'wrong crowd' begins small with egging cars. That goes unchecked and that same child begins to spray paint cars. This child becomes unruly in class because the bad behaviour has not been checked (we are talking about a child who is in 5th-6th grade). The child begins by yelling at the teacher disrespectfully. The punishment: sitting in the corner for the rest of class (BIG DEAL! This is a reward....#1 no longer is participation in the class for the day required, #2 the child can now dose for the rest of the class; and #3 no motivation to not do it again...rather, acting out keeps you from the responsibility of class participation)
Please explain to me how putting this child in art class would curb the bad choices being made and the belief that these types of behaviours are OKAY! Explain to me how putting this child in art class will teach responsibility and that you cannot talk to people, especially those in authority (such as a boss) come from art class, sporting events, or debate classes? It could be argued this child has some anger issues and putting this particular child in a physical contact sport such as football will only strengthen those anger feelings and could enhance the acting out.
My dear Norcal2, I am 51 years old....terribly abused as a child; never abused my children and resorted to a spanking only when it was necessary. A spanking from me meant a swatting with something like a newspaper that would make more noise than pain.
Three swats in the Principal's office is not abuse! Being bullied in school is abuse, having teachers overly theatrical in their yelling at students is abuse, and letting children go unpunished is abuse.
- 1 vote
Reliable some of the best programs are the creative writing and poetry projects that offer children not just the how-to but also the stage for their creative side. It works whether in the inner city or in rural America. When children find a passion and are able to be celebrated they often find a reason for being in school. Those schools that offer up education and creativity do well. I am not really talking about a parent swatting a child's hand or placing them in a timeout, just educators in a school deciding that spanking is their only tool. There is a reason why this is a headline story...schools do not handle children this way, particularly highly successful schools where children actually go on to a higher education.
Show me a teacher spanking a child or yelling at their students as a way of communicating and I'll show you a teacher who burned out long ago. I am sorry you were abused and pleased that you controlled yourself but many abused children do have to pay close attention to how they handle their own children. Abuse can go on for generations as we all know. But that is about parents and this is about strangers in a school who may or may not know that little Bobby lost his puppy or little Sue may be abused and acting out or for that matter an adult authority figure may not be as balanced as one would wish from a stranger making the call. That is why a parent makes the call on action and a school does not.
- 1 vote
I got the paddle once in school. Then the principle called home. Got the belt when I got home. Guess who didn't get in trouble in school again?
- 4 votes
Enhanced tutelary techniques I believe is the phrase the previous administration would have used to describe this.
It's not a good thing to hurt and humiliate children. Even if it makes the adult feel better.
- 1 vote
#2 - Mon May 4, 2009 6:47 AM EDTI think you're confused. The princaple did not feel better. However, ALL the children are better behaved.
- 3 votes
It's not a good thing to hurt and humiliate children.
Unfortunately kids that aren't punished or dealt a case of humility once in a while are many of the same kids that don't understand the consequences of their actions and show disrespect for their parents, employers, neighbors, and fellow man later in life.
Does corporal punishment solve all problems? ... No.
Does every kid need corporal punishment to become a productive member of society? ... No
Would re-instituting corporal punishment, as described in the article or other contributors below, improve behavior both in the school and later in life? ... The article proves the first to be true. The latter will likely be noticed several years from now.
Kudos to the parents willing to allow it. Shame on those who don't. Believe it or not, but your kids will love and respect you more later in life if you discipline them as youth.
- 3 votes
You may not need corporal punishment, but you need consequences for actions. Not just talk; but hard consequences!
- 1 vote
It's not a good thing to hurt and humiliate children.
When I see a blanket statement like this I wonder what makes it true? I remember when I was young a long time ago, if I was humiliated I made sure to change my behavior so I would not get humiliated again.
- 1 vote
Maybe we should all get our paddles,and belts,switches,ect.,and go to the US Capitol.We can march the whole bunch out back,and tan thier hides.They have been lying,cheating,and stealing.Then we can do the same to the teachers unions,administrators,and members of the school board.They've ruined the education system in this country,and wasted alot of our money doing it!They need to be taught a lesson,they could use a little "discipline"!
- 2 votes
#3 - Mon May 4, 2009 7:00 AM EDTYougotsmitty-I agree with you....Politicians could use a little discipline. No, I'm sorry they could use a lot of discipline. But where would the principal's office be, and who would serve as the disciplinarian, and who would monitor the disciplinarian's disclipinarian...so on and so forth! Where would it end?
- 1 vote
I'm with you Smitty. Abuse the abusers and educate the children for a change.
Spare the rod....spoil the child!
I hope more schools adopt this philosophy.
There are WAY too many children who do not listen, or talk back.
In life, when they get older, they will lose a job instead of getting a little paddling!
For goodness sake, yelling at a kid humiliates a child as much as a paddling.....so what's the difference?
I've heard the "horror" stories from friends of mine who are full, and sub teachers........and it's shocking some of the stories they tell. I don't have a lot of respect for schools forcing levy after levy down our throats, but parents must start taking accountability to discipline their children when they are out of line at school!
- 5 votes
#4 - Mon May 4, 2009 7:19 AM EDTBut the bottom line, if you cared to read the article-- is that it WORKS! In fact, it works so well that now its not needed much any more. The kids have learned the rules, and know the boundries and they now and then only test them, not break them. Besides, you will notice that it's voluntary dependent on the parents.
So it seems that you people who are against it are against it only because it offends your sensibilities, rather than debating the virtues of the idea as to wether it works or not.
I went to a private Lutheran grade school from 1955 to 1963. They were not shy about paddling, and there was no parental consent required. I got my share of them many times and I never grew up to be a bully or abusive, nor did any in the class. The simple fact is that small children are all ego and no judgement and force and pain is often the only thing they understand. If you parents think that you are making any impression on your kids by talking to them in the modern psychobable mumbo-jumbo you've been sold on-- I got news for you--- your kids are laughing at you.
Once the kids now the rules they will obey them because they know that the consequences are worse.
And the real fact is that most of you parents who would never give your kids a spanking are too lazy or too fearful to do so. My father was not shy about this either. When I once pulled a temper tantrum in a department store, not only did I get a down with the pants spanking right there, but when I cried and wouldn't leave with them to the next store he took me by my ankle and dragged me out of the store, down the street to the next store where he dumped me in a corner and told me I could stay there till they had to go to the next store at which time I had a choice of going the same way or getting there under my own power.
That was pretty bad, but it was the piercing, contemptuous, and dismissive looks of strangers at my antics that turned it all around. And no one came up stamping their little feet and throwing a hissy fit and threating my father with taking them to DYFUS or whatever social service agency they use today.
Young children have no fully formed minds to understand reason or contracts, they know only pleasure and pain.
- 2 votes
#5 - Mon May 4, 2009 7:24 AM EDTTaking instruction from the Bible on child rearing is like using a Jeffrey Dahmer cookbook. Didn't Mr. God tell Abraham to kill his son? And then change his mind? Damn flip-flopper.
My children are respectful, warm human beings. They have never been hit and scarcely been yelled at. I expect they will treat their children with the same love and affection.
Mr. Sigurd writes, "Young children have no fully formed minds to understand reason or contracts, they know only pleasure and pain." Wrong - they know love.
And discipline is love.
Spare the rod, spoil the child. Didn't come from god, it came from 1000's of years of experience.
Following Dr. Spocks advice on raising children, clearly does not work. My proof? Since we stopped spanking, childhood violence has gone through the roof.
By the way. Spock never had any children of his own. Why anyone would follow his advice, knowing that, is unfathomable to me. It's like taking driving lessons from a 15 year old b/c he's been watching his dad for the last 10 years.
- 2 votes
Edwin has problems now because he started spanking and taught his children the lesson that it's good to abuse children.
Actually quite the opposite happens. My dad was heavy handed when it came time to spank. So my sister never spanked. Her 2 sons, one is a HS drop out and the other joined the Airforce b/c no univerity would take him. I spank as a last resort. Out of my 5 kids; 1 is in honors classes w/ 4.2 gpa, my twin boys are on the honor roll (1 has minor autism), the next gets all B's, the little one is in K so there is no grade.
When we are out, complete strangers tell us what wonderfull and well behaved kids we have. Other parents do the same.
so go ahead and call me an abuser, my kids are going places.
- 3 votes
You go Edwin!!!! Discipline strengthens, not weakens children. Proper discipline is not abuse.
- 3 votes
Love - and I mean this in all sincerity is the answer - the one common element in creating the best environment for children to grow and thrive.
As far as hitting - it's easy for adults to forget how big they are and how scary that is. Kids weigh about forty pounds for a good portion of their childhood. Anyone who has to hit their kids [lease remember you're the grownup and don't do it in anger.
I can only recall one time I was paddled in school(in the 70's) I had it coming and it got my attention. I got another paddling when I got home.
The school where my kids attend have corporal punishment, before it can be used they must contact a parent(the child) tell what they have done and then the principal speaks with the parent also to get permission. The parent is given the option of being present during the punishment.
I don't have issues with administration being able to make kids behave. It makes the school safer for my children and teachers as well. There is an overwhelming lack of respect for authority that is very prevalent in most of our schools today. If the consequences are plain and simple for infractions, kids and parents shouldn't be taken by surprise. There needs to be accountability for bad behavior, so I say kudos to the school if they have had success employing this method.
- 4 votes
#6 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:01 AM EDTExactly how I feel. My kids get spanked (one swat on the butt) when they need it. If the principal calls me and the violation warrants a spanking, then I don't have a problem with it.
- 2 votes
Go on and teach your children how you don't care who beats them. Do you also let your neighbors beat your children?
saltoftheearth68
You are a moron. Making false accusations just proves that you don't know what we are talking about.
- 3 votes
Go on and teach your children how you don't care who beats them.
So what in anything that was said in this thread lead you to LEAP to this conclusion? Everything said has been "with the knowledge of the parent". Time to take your rose colored glasses off.
Do you also let your neighbors beat your children?
If they don't follow the rules of the house and the neighbor has my blessings on it ... I say, "Go for it." Speaking from experience as a recipient ... It was the last time I messed up at that neighbor's home.
- 4 votes
salt, I don't beat my kids. There is a big difference in beating and spanking. My kids rarely get spanked and when they do it is 1 swat on the tush with my hand. I trust my son's principal. BTW, my child has never even been sent to the principals office for something bad (he did go there last year to read a book to the principal). He is well behaved and has never really gotten in big trouble at school. I however, think that if he does and it warrants a spanking, I trust his principal to do it.
- 2 votes
Do you also let your neighbors beat your children?
Depends on who my neighbor is. If it was a family member or a close friend and my child was there and did something to warrant being spanked.
There is a misconception that discipline is equal to "beating" or abuse. I believe a swat on the bottom goes a long way in teaching a child you mean business. I also believe each child is different and what works for one may not work for another. I think this principle tries to do everything else before swatting.
If a child is taught at a young age what is and what isn't acceptable behavior, and continues to be taught as they grow, the older they get the need for spanking will go too.
I agree there is a difference between spanking and beating a child.
- 1 vote
I too was paddled at school when I was a child. I had another one waiting when I got home. My grandma made sure I knew she knew how to use my grandpa's belt! Whenever any of us grandkids did anything wrong, she brought out the belt. It only took once or twice!
I wasn't beaten as a child. I was told to behave and when I didn't there were consequences for my actions. That does not happen today. I spank my kids. I don't beat them; I make them behave. If more schools did this, there would be fewere problems today.
- 5 votes
#7 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:15 AM EDTSo true Proud and LS.
Why is it so hard for people to understand the difference between responsible spanking and child abuse????
I grew up in the 70's-80's. I was spanked and they also paddled at my school. I do not abuse my child. I swat his butt when he needs it. Big deal. It didn't damage me psychologically or turn me into an abuser. And I'm sooooo tired of hearing people say that spanking always escalates to abuse. BS!
- 5 votes
You are totally right Michelle. I remember resenting being paddled, but at no time was it not justified in my case anyway. It set the boundary for us, we were always warned so when we crossed the line again, we knew it was coming. And you knew just whose fault it was too. It's a hard life lesson by example. You break the law for whatever reason, there will be consequences. If a lawyer gets you out of it in court you still know you're guilty you just got lucky. If I got 'swatted' at school I'd be praying the school principal didn't phone my parents, 'cause I would have got it again at home!
- 3 votes
sooooo tired of hearing people say that spanking always escalates to abuse. BS!
Exactly! If more people spent time watching over their own house they would have much less time to watch over yours ..so to speak.
If there is true abuse going on that is a horse of a different color, then something should be done, but to make blanket statements that anyone who spanks is an abuser is basically what Michelle said...full of BS
- 2 votes
I LOVE that someone has decided to reinstitute corporal punishment AND that the parents there are cooperative about it, too. It seems that this principal has a good balance of caring along w/his discipline and this is exactly what kids need.They know that he does both because he cares about them. This "fear" of the paddle is good and IS a deterrent for bad behavior. There was corporal punishment when I went to school, and you DID NOT want to get the paddle from our principal "Tank". There were much less discipline problems then than there are now. I remember in 1st grade my Dad told my teacher, "if she needs a whipping you give it to her." That was all I needed to hear.
#1 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
- 3 votes
#8 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:31 AM EDTWhat's that sound?
It's the noise of all the liberal minds exploding as they see a conservative ideal work!
Wow!! Who would have thought that 10 years of research by Dr. Spock did not equal 5500 years of experience by jews and christians?!?
For those that did not notice; violence sky rocketted shortly after paddleing was outlawed.
- 3 votes
#9 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:35 AM EDTI don't agree with spanking at school, if a child needs spanked it should be the parent administering it.
We had a principle at my kids middle school who used a paddle, it got to be a joke among the kids, "if you mess up you'll get a spanking then you can go back a say what a whimp Darrel is" These kids , the bad ones, use to heckle him. But when they were ;ooking at suspension they settled down.
- 1 vote
#10 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:47 AM EDTThose kids wouldn't be joking if they had had my principal.....lol.
- 1 vote
Suspention is like a mini vacation for kids. All they have to do is beat thier parents home, an EASY feat, delete the voice mail, and check the mail everyday and toss the letter from the school.
- 2 votes
not if they had to have the parent come to school to get them back in, alot of schools use in school supension
- 1 vote
Suspension was a deterrent? Most kids act up just to get suspended; suspension is a joke! I grew up in the 60's and I was spanked in school with a paddle that had holes which resulted in blisters. Suspension vs. paddle with holes? No brain-er there....suspension any day. Get off from school a couple of days and then right back to what you were doing. In my later days of high school mid-70's I attended a school that used suspension over paddling
Suspension was no deterrent. I was once suspended and I loved every minute of my suspension; it was like a mini holiday and everyone at school was jealous because I did something wrong and got rewarded for it. Suspension is nothing more than a reward for bad behaviour.
I was paddled all throughout my grade school years and I did not turn out to be an abusive parent. In fact, I used time outs before a spanking (the spankings I gave were more noise than pain). I believe that children will push the limits just to see how far they can go. If there is no consequence for an action what motivation is there to change an action?
Children welcome boundaries and consequences, that is how they learn. Without limits and consequences they are taught that anything they can think of goes. The problem today is with lazy parents who do not want to take the time to monitor their children's actions and provide consistent consequences. Parents tell children they are not to do something and send them to their room and the next time they do the same thing nothing happens because the parent does not want to take the time to explain why the consequences are being given.
I believe it is high time that school's are allowed to discipline children besides suspension. Detentions are not even a valid consequence anymore. It used to be that if you were given a detention there was some sort of school work associated with the detention. Now a detention is just extra time in a classroom with no associated school work or humiliation.
I went to a high school once where they had a mandatory study hall, but you were not allowed to study. We had a pool table, cards, board games, etc. and you had to learn how to associate with other people. If you were caught doing home work or just sitting alone and reading a book, you got into trouble. You were not even allowed to be with your own group of friends. The whole point of the class was to learn how to get along with and appreciate people that were different from you. It was a great learning tool and that school had a lower rate of problems than any other school I attended. I learned more life long skills in that one class than all the paddling and suspensions ever taught me.
We need to have discipline in schools, look how violent schools have gotten. We need to teach our children compassion and discipline. A spanking coupled with a discussion before hand about why the spanking is being administered teaches a lot, especially when the child knows that it is administered with the parents consent.
If children don't learn discipline at a young age, when will they learn it? When they become adults and have more pressures and vices at their disposal? Spanking is not abuse; not teaching children consequences is the worst abuse a parent can give.
Discipline means spending time with children to discuss what went wrong. Today parents don't have time to spend with their children, they want all their spare time to themselves, and let the children take care of themselves.
All the violent outbreaks occurring around the world involving young people, should be a definite wake-up call for parents. Children learn they don't have to obey rules from somewhere....where do you think they learned that...right at home where they have not been given consequences.
I'm tired of lazy parents that want to blame everything on the lack of teachers doing what they should do...teachers are there to teach...parents should also instill a firm base for children learning consequences.
Wake up all parents your children are out there screaming for some direction, listen to them and take time to talk to them. Hep them understand there will always be consequences that are not to their liking. What is the saying? "Every action has a reaction." Hmmm maybe we should teach this and paddling only humiliates for a brief moment....jail time humiliates for a lifetime.
- 4 votes
I agree a good swat on the butt never hurt anyone but I still day it should be the parent that delivers it.
So if spanking is to be allowed in school and a parent agrees maybe thay should also agree to come to the school and do the spanking, that way the child knows the parent is backing the school and their behaviors will not be tollerated
- 1 vote
Reliable
Suspension was no deterrent. I was once suspended and I loved every minute of my suspension; it was like a mini holiday and everyone at school was jealous because I did something wrong and got rewarded for it. Suspension is nothing more than a reward for bad behaviour.
Truer words have never been spoken.
- 1 vote
I was paddled as a child (though never at school), and I can remember paddlings in elementary school. Very few were ever paddled, but the ones who were definitely deserved it. I think this school seems to have struck a good balance between discipline and understanding. No system is going to be perfect, but they do get the parent's permission as well as talking to the student about why the behavior is happening and wrong. I remember just hearing the snap of that belt was enough for me to straighten up. I don't know that this method would work everywhere, but it seems to have worked for this particular school. Let's hope that when these students move on through the school system they continue the good behavior even when paddling is not a punishment.
- 4 votes
#11 - Mon May 4, 2009 8:50 AM EDTWith the way our school systems are we should re-introduce corporal punishment in school. The kids in our schools think they can do and say what they want with no repercussions. I would venture to guess that most schools would see a severe decline in fights, weapons, and even drugs in our schools if these kids had consequence's for their actions at a young age. Of course there are and always will be the exceptions to the rule. The child who will defy regardless of what you do or say. But as a whole I think it would serve as a deterrent at the very least.
- 4 votes
#12 - Mon May 4, 2009 9:11 AM EDTNo discipline at home, can't spank you kid b/c it's abuse and the system will take them away, coupled with none at school, means that kids are tought that there are no consiquiences.
When I was a kid, if someone broght a knife, it was to show it off not use it. any kid that used anything as a weapon in a fight was a chicken or a sissy. Now if you bring a gun to schooll; You're the man! Why? B/c there are no consiquinces.
- 4 votes
I have to agree with you that it may not work in all schools. And I think probably would be most effective in elementary school. Children of that age seem like they would be most receptive to the concept of fearing the reprocussions of misbehaving, and learning from it.
When you are dealing with high school kids who, say, live in areas where you may get shot randomly at home by drug dealers or gangs or beaten by your mother's/father's next boyfriend/girlfriend...... Well, you may have to use other methods.
The children of this generation are growing up with the worst cases of entitlement these days! Praised for everything, parties for graduation from kindergarten and grade school, given trophies for events they don't win just so their feelings aren't hurt. Kids need to be taught that you DON'T win all the time. It's a VERY valuable lesson. How did that get lost????
I woe the day my sons are old enough to go to school and I sit in PTA meetings asking why we need a party for kindergarten graduation, and trying to explain why it's ridiculous.
- 3 votes
If they are not taught manners by high school they are on thier own. It needs to be instilled early on, so there is no problem in HS.
- 4 votes
I agree, some laws that are drafted and passed become so over interpreted that the intent of the law is lost and it becomes a tool for organizations and interest groups to bid for there cause.
We do our children a dis-service by not using any means that works for that child to be a productive and successful person in society. Even if that means a spank on the bum ocassionally.
- 2 votes
Are children not citizens of this nation where people have a right to voice their opinions? Children have opinions also. If they conflict with you then you choose to beat it out of them? This type of mentality is why your religions are losing support.
Salt, this has nothing to do with voicing opinions. This has to do with verbal abuse in the classroom and not having respect for authority! If kids cannot respect authority at a young age, how are they going to do it as an adult? And frankly if it means a swat on the butt, then so be it!
- 3 votes
OMG! Salt, children by definition are not of age and are under the authority of their parents. Nowhere in this thread has it been stated we are discussing a child's opinion. No one here is talking about spanking a child for an opinion! A 6th grader walking into school is a little more than a child expressing an opinion. This action would call for a little more than sitting in a corner, or even an art class. I would imagine this child would think twice before bringing a gun to class again.
Why do you think children believe that they can get away with all these violent acts? It's the one place they know no one can do anything to them!!!!!! They know they cannot be disciplined other than being suspended...ohhhhhh, that would really scare me!
This is exactly what is wrong with the school system today and society! There is no accountability anymore for one's actions and no responsibility taken.
- 5 votes
Salt; what can I say you have taken this so far out of context. I feel confident you don't have any children and if you do they are still in diapers goo goo-ing and ga ga-ing. Enjoy that.
- 4 votes
Oh, salt......
Children may HAVE opinions, but WE ARE THE PARENTS. They are not mini-adults. Just because they have an opinion or point of view does not mean they get to express it whenever and wherever they choose. IE: talking back to teachers, parents....
It's parents that believe what you do that are making kids act out.
- 4 votes
Some of the kids cry. Some are silent. Some want a hug.
See the part where it says "Some want a hug". I think if they really feared him or if he wasn't displaying some type of positive guidance to these children they would be afraid of him. Crying is a natural response to being disciplined especially if they live in homes where they are not used to it. If it lowers the rate of offenses that require being sent to the principle then he is obviously doing something right even if some think his methods are not appropriate.
- 5 votes
Are children not citizens of this nation where people have a right to voice their opinions?
YES, but they are subject to the laws of the land just as we are!
There are consequences to our actions.If they break the rules...and get a swat, that is a consequence to breaking the "law" If you are speeding in your car and get a ticket, that is a consequence to breaking the law.
Not a hard concept really if you stop equating discipline with abuse.
Not only that as a child you reasoned as a child as an adult you (hopefully) reason as an adult, big difference.
- 3 votes
Children feel safe and secure when they know that there are consequences for breaking the rules. I have no problem with his technique.
When I was a teacher, a group of thugs tossed one teacher down the stairwell. Their punishment - 3 days suspension. Big deal. They got a holiday for attempted murder. No wonder kids end up in gangs and eventually in prison. Schools should be the safest place in the county. A parent should never have to worry that another student will pull a knife on thier child.
If this principal's method works, I say go for it.
- 3 votes
#14 - Mon May 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDTthose thugs should have had charges brought against them!
Sorry but I still say it is up to the parent to spank not another person
- 1 vote
Every dollar I have and maxing out of my credit card to bet that those kids didn't learn anything good.
They should have gone to jail, not on a mini-vacation.
- 3 votes
All children need to understand that they are not in charge and that adults are. I have never spanked either of my kids, but I have told them about it and what is involved. I think that this forces them to respect me and know that ultimately my wife and I are in charge of them and we will not tolerate really obnoxious or bad behavior. This seems to be a problem today; parents are their kids friends, teachers are their friends- no- we are adults whose job it is to raise decent human beings threw example, discipline and love. Letting kids do whatever pleases them with no boundaries is a huge mistake and we see it all over the place. Adults need to be authority figures, not pals to kids. However, I think paddles, belts, whips and all of that stuff is uncalled for. A firm, solid palm spanking to the butt is all that is needed to correct really bad behavior, especially when kids are little- they are looking for discipline and guidance with rules and limits. They are not wild animals, they will respond to order. Hopefully I will never have to do this. My Dad spanked me once for throwing rocks at cars on our street when I was about 10 years old. He explained to me why he was doing it, and said that it was going to hurt him more than me, and he did it like three times. The kid that was with me also got it from his Dad. That was the end of it; we never did something that stupid again. Coincidentally, we were caught by the guy driving the car, who stopped and chased us for about two miles through fields and woods and ultimately collared us both and dragged us home to our fathers. Moral of the story? Three adults nailed two dumb kids by correcting the problem right then and there. No negotiations, counselors, excuses, mimby pimby wrist slapping, cop calling or any of this contemporary bs. I'm 49 now and remember it like it was yesterday, and that is what today's youth need in my opinion- immediate consequences.
- 3 votes
#15 - Mon May 4, 2009 10:33 AM EDTBut once again let us not forget that parents are a big part of the problem.
We have a friend who is very involved with 4H clubs up here. All the 4H groups put on exhibits at the local County Fair. The kids work together on these. One year the 4H group my friend was working with had a project which was to show the progress of beef and diary products from the field to the table. One kid in the group didn't want to do that, he wanted the kids to make an exhibit of their transformer toys (of which he had several dozen). Everyone else wanted the field to table project. The kid wouldn't do anything and his parents took the 4H group to COURT to FORCE them to accept the kids transformer toys as part of the exhibit.
So there it was, the whole field to table thing and in front, the stupid transformer toys. (Note, I have no children, so I had no dog in this fight). My friend asked the parents if this was a good example they were setting their kids. Both of them, high priced lawyers said "YES! all that counts is that you win and get your way!" Well the exhibit obviously did not win, because of the stupid transformer toys which was a shame because not only had the kids done it well, but one kid had volunteered his model train set to show cattle cars being hauled from farm to meat packing plant, and another his roadway set to show the semis hauling the food to the A&P, and it was really really nice.
The parents of the kid then sued the judging committee for not awarding the prize to the 4H group. The judge threw the case out of court-- thank God!
- 4 votes
#16 - Mon May 4, 2009 10:44 AM EDTNo spanking in schools. No spanking at home. Spanking leads to higher forms of punishment. Place the bad student in the corner of the classroom, or principle's office for awhile and let him/her think about what he has done that is bad. No GITMO in schools. Spanking to some children, most children, is tantamount to torture. While raising my four children, I wouldn't have allowed anyone in a school, or elsewhere to spank or abuse my child in any way. At home, he/she would have gotten a good talking to and sent to his room, or made to do chores he/she didn't like 0r I'd have them run around the big house we had, many, many times and think about why he's running. Too much has been done to the psyche of children - that's why they misbehave in the first place - to get attention - any kind of attention - negative attention. I don't care that the school shows that the paddle doesn't have to be used as frequently anymore, I wouldn't have anyone touching my child in an inappropriate way. This principle can go to h*** for placing hurt on top of what the child realizes he has done, and that what he has done is wrong. Hitler's stormtroopers and Hitler Youth abused people - and the people couldn't fight back - this is what this principle is doing in his school - just to make a name for himself and that his school has "discipline" - at what cost? What is the child thinking as he is placed in a position and whacked with a paddle - no real, deep down good can be done by this - just looks like it on the outside - but what perks in the minds of those treated so badly. Certainly not good feelings - certainly not - Oh, boy I've learned my lesson - rather, at some point in his/her life this paddling will come to the fore and the child will act out because of it.
#17 - Mon May 4, 2009 11:02 AM EDTI do spank my kids but very rarely. When I do, it is 1 swat (with my hand) on their tush. My kids are by no means abused.
I have been told my kids are very well behaved. It works when time outs don't.
- 4 votes
You couldn't be more wrong.
Since "we" have stopped spanking childhood crime has gone through the roof. The types of crimes "we" would never have thought of were surpased in the 90's. I never would have thought to carry a gun to school, let alone use it or kill someone. Now we expect a mass murder to happen at least once a year.
I spank my kids. When we are out with them, complete strangers stop and take the time to complement us on how well behaved out kids are. We have 5 kids, and they all know how to act.
- 4 votes
You're right, Edwin. Clara, I was spanked as a child by my grandma and my parents. It was NOT torture! And it was not GITMO. What a comment!
My kids have gotten swats on their behinds for behavior. And they learn a lesson. I too get compliments on my kids and how well behaved they are. I can take them out to eat and they don't run around or act like fools. In fact, I can take them anywhere and they don't act like fools! They know there are consequences for their actions! Bad or good.
Sitting in a corner does nothing, but a swat is remembered!
- 4 votes
Oh, Clara PLEASE!
Hitler, torture, etc......
You are entitled to your opinion.
I CAN AND WILL spank my children. I will also authorize the school to do it if neccessary. SPANK....not BEAT or TORTURE.....lol
- 3 votes
If you will authorize them to spank why don't you have them call you when there is an infraction and you go to school and do the spanking
Because, K, my children need to learn that there are other people in the world that they need to respect besides me.
- 1 vote
I agree children need to learn respect, but you are still teaching them to respect others by doing the spanking yourself. They will know if I disrespect this person, teacher ,rule my mom will be called and I'm going to get it.
Sorry, and I'm not saying you do this, but to many parents leave the disapline up to somebody else, so they aren't the bad guy.
Like someone said earlier when you have a child you are their parent not their freind , freindship between the child and parent develops once the child has become an adult
If you will authorize them to spank why don't you have them call you when there is an infraction and you go to school and do the spanking
Because children should learn respect for all authority not just their parents. If they grow up with the idea that no one can discipline them but their parents then what happens when they get old enough to drive and get stopped by the cops?
I always told my 2 sons that "you are with that teacher 8 hours a day, if she tells you to do something you better act like I told you to do it", that creates the atmosphere that she is in charge while their at school, do what she says. Children also have a knack for playing one adult against another, some even can master the art between parents. I never gave mine room to do that. If something happen to them while at school, the teacher or principle is the first person I'm going to see, so why would I not allow them to have authority to handle a situation as they see fit.
- 1 vote
Kudos to Mr Nixon for taking an approach that he had to know would be unpopular at best in the eyes of so many "experts". Even despite it's obvious success, look at all the "experts" on this board accusing him of everything from racism to criminal activity to being a pervert. If they are to be believed, then for the most part, my generation would be psychologically damaged, violent,criminal, parent haters. Guess what...we're not.
I didn't get a lot of spankings at home or paddlings at school, simply because I knew the threat was there. If I had acted in public like a see a lot of kids act today, one look from my dad would have stopped me in my tracks. My parents are gone now, but I have nothing but respect and admiration for the way they raise their 5 sons. Some of us got more spankings than the others because we were five distinctly different personalities. Three of us could be talked to and reasoned with a little better than the other two. They were rebellious by nature and did get a lot more spankings than the rest of us. They were never beaten or abused and have every bit as much love and respect for our parents as do the other three. Nor do I hold any anymosity toward any of the teachers that paddled me, because in retrospect, I can't remember getting one that I didn't deserve.
So while timeouts do seem to work for some kids, some kids will unfortunately respond only to a swat across the behind. And if that's what they need, kudos to Mr Nixon again for seeing that and taking the needed action to better his school.
- 4 votes
#18 - Mon May 4, 2009 11:28 AM EDTMy Dad didn't use a look. He used my name in "that tone". I always stopped what I was doing, apologized, even when I didn't know what I had done wrong, and went an did something else.
- 2 votes
I always hated it when my dad would give me that look and say "sit down I think we need to have a talk" he never raised his voice nor his hand but pointed out that he was diappointed in my actions and why, never did he say he was disappointed in me. He never degraded me and only pointed out what I had done was wrong and why, and I was always given the chance to tell my side of things and why I did what I did. He never accepted the "I don't knows"
By the time the talk was over I sometimes wish he had beat me.
Yeah, that talk could sometimes be worse than spanking, but the occasional spanking did come my way. The combination of "the look" and " the tone" could make me "straighten up and fly right", as my dad would have said, very quickly.
- 2 votes
As a very wise friend of mine once said, "We were put on this earth to be their parents. They can find their friends elsewhere."
To many parents have buried "the look", "the tone", or the swat on the backside and tried to be friends to their kids.
It's one thing to be supportive of your kids. It's a totally different thing to be supportive and excuse away the bad habits and bad behavior when confronted by the school, church, or neighbor.
- 3 votes
Since when did paddling become abuse?? I got whooped when I was a kid and never felt abused nor have any psychological damage because of it..... except the fact that I know the difference between right and wrong!! It didnt take too many whippings before I realized I didn't want anymore!! So, as for the ones that don't respond.... they probably aren't getting it bad enough!!!
- 2 votes
#19 - Mon May 4, 2009 12:06 PM EDTTeaching your child by abusing them sets them up to believe that society can also abuse them. Do children in America have the right to not be assaulted by their parents? When one adult hits another it is a crime called assault. That means it is not right to hit adults. When an adult hits a child it's called spanking or discipline or whatever, and it is still assault. Parents are guilty of not being very good guides to their children. Giving positive attention to children is a skill that unfortunately most American parents are lacking in. These children would really like to hang with their parents and learn to do big people stuff until the big people have hammered down on them. Then the children learn to hammer down on smaller children while avoiding the hammer of the big people. Look kid. I'm hitting you because it's not good for you to hit people who are smaller than you. I've read some really sick comments on this subject and can only hope that some of you ?parents? change your ways and have patience with the children who you are teaching to be abusive.
#20 - Mon May 4, 2009 1:07 PM EDTyou can't possibly have children.
This comment proves it;
These children would really like to hang with their parents and learn to do big people stuff
big people stuff is boring to kids and looks like chores. My kids love to learn, but can't wait for it to be over.
- 5 votes
I have plenty of patience with my kids. Go ahead and keep believing that I beat my kids...all you would have to do is ask my 8 year old if he thinks it is abuse. He gets a spanking maybe once a month, if that. I rarely spank my kids b/c they don't do things that warrant it.
- 3 votes
OK Edwin I have children. I learned early on in my fatherhood role that spanking and yelling are not good ways of dealing with unruly children. My oldest taught me that it is better to spend what little energy I had at the end of a physically exausting day with them instead of kicking back in front of the tv thinking only of myself. I felt better as a parent watching my kids have fun learning about the world around them and about new things they could do. Neglecting them and abusing them for being unruly out of my sight did not fit very well in my mind as being a good father so I adjusted my attitude and behavior.
These children would really like to hang with their parents and learn to do big people stuff
While this is very true of younger kids, teens on the other hand don't want to hang with their parents..at least not where their friends are. Thankfully that stage isn't very long (at least that has been my experience), and then it is cool to hang with mom and dad again.
- 1 vote
I was spanked as a child; NOT abused! There is a BIG difference! I was loved and part of that love was learning right and wrong. I learned early on there were consequences for my actions. As many have pointed out, since corporal punishment was outlawed, kids have run amoke. That's because there are no consequences for their acctions. How is spanking abuse???
How can you not teach your kids about consequences? For goodness sake, take responsibility for your actions and own up to the fact. Perhaps our schools would be safer places and our streets safer too!
- 6 votes
#21 - Mon May 4, 2009 1:13 PM EDTAnyone notice how saltoftheearth68 never responds to the challenges of the posts presented? Evidently saltoftheearth68 is too busy beating the "abuse" drum to notice that there is some healthy dialog going on in here.
- 3 votes
#22 - Mon May 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDTGive it up Dave.....
It's not going to sink in......
I guess salt just got lucky with well behaved kids.
But aparently he thinks we are all lazy and spend no time with our children, so we have to "beat" them......lollll:
My oldest taught me that it is better to spend what little energy I had at the end of a physically exausting day with them instead of kicking back in front of the tv thinking only of myself. I felt better as a parent watching my kids have fun learning about the world around them and about new things they could do. Neglecting them and abusing them for being unruly out of my sight did not fit very well in my mind as being a good father so I adjusted my attitude and behavior.
- 2 votes
So answer me this saltoftheearth68.......
How do you explain your drug use to your children????
(Go look at his profile...."medical use" lol)
I take prescription drugs. Overthecounter medicines upset my system and cause me to vomit on top of debilitating headaches. Marijuana helps me to not get the headaches. I live in a state where marijuana is kept illegal by a very minute part of the population and I see doctors who would prescribe me marijuana if the state would allow it. I have no choice but to get it illegaly or move to a progressive state like California.
I doubt I would have had headaches as a child or adult had I not had to put up with abusive adults when I was small. Now some of you want to kick me around more because I break the law of the few and do something about my condition. Some of us have enough sense to put a stop to the vicious cycle of abuse by adopting differant actions. Others of us sound as if they had all of that sense knocked out of them.
or others choose to smoke dope to forget their abuse and the pain
- 2 votes
Boy, isn't THAT just the most convenient response????
Never bothered to mention before that HE was a victim of abuse! Now.....when it fits his purpose......lol
- 1 vote
Please salt, I was beat up many times by an ex-boyfriend. My dad tried beating me once and I told him (at the age of 10) that he had no room to do that since I equated him to a sperm donor. I get migraines that are very debilitating but I don't attribute that to my past abuse. I atribute that to the fact that I have a great amount of stress in my life, in the here and now. I am not real sure how ALL OTC or prescription meds for headaches can upset you stomach, there are a bunch of different one's that work in different ways...as a nurse, I am just sayin...
- 2 votes
because I break the law of the few
There are consequences to this, just sayin..
- 2 votes
Spanking and abuse.....two total opposites.
I have to add, IMO, that I feel using an object is questionable,rather than just ones open hand. I spank my youngest at a last resort, but it gets results.
Too many that are against any form of corporal punishment think their little angels would NEVER do anything wrong. I`m willing to bet that some of these kids that are going into their schools and KILLING their teachers and fellow students were "reasoned with" or more likely talked to death. They were never taught to respect authority.
I agree wholeheartedly that the youth of today have lost respect for authority, namely teachers and others that work in our schools. I`ve seen it 1st hand. You can try to reason all you want with some of these kids and give them several chances to listen, but, the fact is, they know there is no REAL consequence at school for their actions.
- 5 votes
#23 - Mon May 4, 2009 2:14 PM EDTWhy though? Why are kids getting away with so much today? I believe public schools should be like military schools, uniforms, conduct codes, the whole nine yards. More discipline is needed. These kids think they are adults before the hit puberty, and the parents let them get away with it. Some of the outfits these kids wear are downright revealing- totally outrageous tops, shorts, flip-flops, boobs and butts hanging out all over the place, and I am not a prude, but the line should be drawn. Kids are in school to learn, not show off their bodies. Public schools are funded by taxpayers and the taxpayers should demand changes to get kids back in line. The school administrators work for us and should do what we tell them to do. Taxpayers have no say anymore; I don't get it, but my kids aren't going to school liking like a bunch of white trash that's for sure. My grandmothers would be having fits if they saw whatwas going on right now in our schools. Dress codes and uniforms; forget kids rights to self expression. Wear whatever you want after you graduate, get a job and see how long you last with your boobs hanging all over the place stupid idiots!
- 1 vote
and the parents let them get away with it.
I think you answered your question right there.
- 1 vote
Spanking doesn't mean punching a kid in the face or throwing the kid across a room or strangling them or burning them with a cigarette butt. We all know that spanking with the bare palm is about asserting authority. You don't knock the kid to the moon while doing it, or go on and on with it- over the knee, twice firmly with pants on, no bare skin. Society has lost a lot of structure and discipline and that is why things are so screwed up these days. The communist manifesto was centered on turning your parents in and not trusting them and only trusting and worshiping the party. Our parents have little authority anymore and chaos and do your own thing reign supreme. It's nuts. My friend was having problems with his teen girl going out and getting drunk at all hours and so forth. Then he tells me, "just you wait, you're so naive, you don't know what is ahead of you. You have to to trust your kids and let them explore" he says to me. I replied, " Nobody has to trust their kids ever until they are adults, and I am not naive because you messed up with your kid." he let's his teen girl meet guys on line, older guys in college! What? Are you nuts? I am so glad my parents enforced rules- it was painful, but boy it kept me out of trouble big time. Now I am applying the same discipline on my kids. rules, guidelines, constraints, with some flexibility. You are not an adult until you are 18 and supporting yourself, then you can go out and do stupid things all you want.
#24 - Mon May 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDTI was always told if you must spank use your open hand, a brush, spatula, BOARD etc can not feel pain
Discipline starts at home!
Bottom line is discipline your children before someone else has too.
I do not like the idea of paddling in school but when all alternatives have been exhausted, (including getting the parents involved) what would you rather a spanking now or visiting you child in jail or worse yet prison later.
Have I got the paddle before, Oh yeah 1x and that was all it took to realize I did not want it again. The asst. principal spoke with me, dismissed me to sit in the hall, called my mom, discussed the situation, asked her how she would wish for him to handle it, and he did it.
Bottom line is discipline your child and enforce respect at home and you should not have to get a call from the principal.
And yes if my son's principal called and he was totally in the wrong, I would allow it. Basically you do the crime, you do the time. The guidelines this principal exhausts before having to paddle is more than fair.
- 3 votes
#25 - Mon May 4, 2009 4:07 PM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
